Saturday Extra

Saturday Extra travels to Page in Northern NSW, a seat that's been identified as a key marginal in the upcoming Federal election.

Page is held by The Nationals with a margin of 5.5 percent, but with Green preferences likely to flow to Labor the outcome is on a knife edge.

Transcript

This transcript was typed from a recording of the program. The ABC cannot guarantee its complete accuracy because of the possibility of mishearing and occasional difficulty in identifying speakers.

Geraldine Doogue: I'm standing on the banks of the Richmond River right now, which is in Lismore in Northern New South Wales.

As you know, I've been saying for the last couple of weeks that we're going to try to get outside the capital cities, to bring you a bit of a fresh slant on the election, and believe you me, it is different when you tread the boards of the particular regions and get to speak to people in their own home towns, hearing their own particular issues and how they're playing out around them, by comparison with reading those broad opinion polls about where the votes are likely to be.

And the point about Lismore, sitting right in the middle of Page, is that this is a real key seat, or it's turned out to be, in the upcoming campaign. Strictly speaking, it should be classic National territory, but various pundits suggest it has become arguably the most marginal rural seat in the country. It's held now with a margin of about 5.7%, but it's such a diverse seat that there is a real question mark over how it will go in this coming election. And we have two very interesting candidates whom we'll introduce you to later in the program, Chris Gulaptis from the Nationals, Janelle Safin from the Labor party; we'll also introduce you to a range of electors, just to give you a flavour of some of the very local views and how they tap into national preoccupations. It's quite an interesting crossover.

But I'd like to introduce you now to a man who I think knows as much about this seat as anybody. He's Russell Eldridge, he's the Editor of the venerable Northern Star, who for 131 years now, has been publishing daily to this particular neck of the woods, and Russell feels that at the heart of this electoral puzzle, and fight, that's underway here, is really a tale of two cities.

Russell Eldridge: You've got candidates based in each of the two cities, and they're diverse, they're very separate.

Geraldine Doogue: That's Grafton and Lismore.

Russell Eldridge: Grafton and Lismore. And each of the two major candidates, Janelle Safin for Labor and Chris Gulaptis for the Nationals, have strong identities in their home towns. Chris in Grafton, and Janelle in Lismore.

Lismore is a much more diverse city than Grafton, which is much more settled, but here you've got the whole range from nose-rings and feathers in the hair, right down to cow cockies who've still got combs in their socks.

Geraldine Doogue: And what about the geography? Is the geography similarly diverse?

Russell Eldridge: In some ways it is. One of the similarities that we're both cities built on rivers that flood, and you'd have to question why. But Grafton is steamy, inland; Lismore, yes Lismore's quite similar in that sense. It doesn't have quite the same old world feel that Grafton has. I think we had a few chain-ball wreckers came in here and destroyed some of the feel of Lismore some years ago.

Geraldine Doogue: You feel a bit of old pastoral money, or agricultural money in Grafton, don't you? With Lismore it's much more of the new?

Russell Eldridge: Definitely. I mean Lismore is a fairly old place, but there was never really any really big money here; there was timber and dairy but there's no barons here. It's been Struggle Street for a lot of people for a long time.

Geraldine Doogue: And you said rivers that flood: no problems with drought here?

Russell Eldridge: No, but we do get what they call the green drought, where everything looks green and sultry but underneath, the water table's dropped. You only need to go a little bit west towards Casino, and the beef growing districts and beyond, and you strike some dry country.

Geraldine Doogue: Now there's a sort of third big centre isn't there, namely Ballina. You haven't mentioned that.

Russell Eldridge: Yes, well Ballina of course is the growing, the coming thing in this area, and Ballina was always second fiddle to Lismore, but eventually one day will be the bigger centre, and it's a bit of a sleeper in this election because there's a lot of people who've moved in, there's a lot of retirees who've moved in, but there's also a lot of families who've moved in, particularly just north of Ballina you've got a residential development stretching up towards Lennox Head, and it's been earmarked by the State government as the major residential growth area. So the demographic mix is quite different.

Geraldine Doogue: And what about income levels Russell, how would you describe the place?

Russell Eldridge: I think Page is the fifth poorest electorate in Australia, and you only really have to walk around to see that a lot of the wealth here in the last eight years or so has been driven by real estate prices along the coast. Other than that, you've got the education system based around the university, you've got a very big health service system, and you've got the legal system. Beyond that, there's not a lot, other than the traditional industries.

Geraldine Doogue: So as the drought has affected agricultural products, there's no other big employment generating industry that's come in to take its place?

Russell Eldridge: Absolutely not. During the late '80s and early '90s, you saw that massive decentralisation, big banks closed their offices, government departments pulled out, we saw entire departments disappear. We used to have a Department of Public Works here that employed about 150 people. It's gone. And so on: we had manufacturing industry, leisure apparel that employed over 100 people. It's gone. Norco has downsized, a lot of the industries have downsized and people are finding work where they can, and there's a great air of enterprise around the place, but it's tough going.

Geraldine Doogue: Small-scale.

Russell Eldridge: Yes.

Geraldine Doogue: So I've read about mortgage defaults and loan defaults being higher in rural areas than other parts of Australia, which makes me think about WorkChoices, and people's sense of whether they're safe at work. Now how do you read both those issues?

Russell Eldridge: I think that WorkChoices would have an impact here, and if there was one issue that was going to cause an upset, an upset Labor win in Page, it would be WorkChoices, because this area's pretty solid, there's not a lot of swinging voters, and I think that WorkChoices might be it. There's people struggling a bit, and you mentioned the housing stuff. You can feel it out there; we have people in our office who are struggling to make their mortgage payments.

Geraldine Doogue: Now, highest Green vote in Australia, except for Bob Brown's seat, a particular part of Denison. So that's quite an extraordinary fact, isn't it?

Russell Eldridge: Yes, well Richmond, when Charles Blunt lost his seat, when Helen Caldicott made her run, she swallowed up this huge amount of Green vote, and delivered all the preferences to Labor, who got over the line and the National party here lost his seat. Byron of course is the centre of that Green vote.

Geraldine Doogue: That's the seat of Richmond?

Russell Eldridge: That's Richmond. Over here, our high Green vote has a lot to do with that diversity I mentioned, and also strong communities out in the north, east and west of Lismore, mainly centred around Nimbin, which of course has now gone from Page. So the Green vote could be affected here.

Geraldine Doogue: What's your call? Labor's, there's been this considerable redistribution, we've got two new candidates because Ian Causley stepped down. How do you think it will play out?

Russell Eldridge: Well I think we've got very good candidates, I think this seat has been sleeping, it's had a fairly lackadaisical political presence, and I think we've got two excellent candidates; I think either of them would be a good candidate, but if I was a betting man, which I'm not, I'd have to put my money on the Nationals, because this is pretty solid conservative country here.

Geraldine Doogue: Thank you very much indeed, Russell Eldridge.

Russell Eldridge: It's a pleasure.

Geraldine Doogue: And we've been quite keen to find people who are not necessarily committed in their vote in electorates, and trying to really gauge whether they're genuine in that. And we think we found one, Barry who answered our callout for people who weren't sure how they'd vote. Barry, thanks very much for giving us your time.

Barry Restall: No problem, a pleasure.

Geraldine Doogue: You haven't made up your mind?

Barry Restall: No, not quite.

Geraldine Doogue: How would you see the issues playing out?

Barry Restall: Well, I can't get excited about the issues because it's very hard to see how either of the candidates are going to have much effect if they even get elected. There are individual issues that concern me to a certain extent, but it's pretty difficult to see how one can have any impact.

Geraldine Doogue: You're a bit disillusioned are you?

Barry Restall: I suppose that's one way of putting it. I don't quite feel disillusioned, just feel a bit sad that our electoral process has actually got to this point.

Geraldine Doogue: What do you mean?

Barry: Well I can remember times when we had political leaders who had statesmanlike qualities, so I remember Steele Hall who dissolved the Playford gerrymander down in South Australia, and promptly lost government. And he did it because it was right to do. And Chifley, who went and ended that coalminers' strike against the wishes of his party; and in more recent times I think Mr Fraser, once he went to the Heads of Government meetings, and after he retired as Prime Minister, developed quite a considerable political conscience if you like, and even the Hawke-Keating years, despite their mouth, I think Keating had a vision which he managed to get across, at least to people like me. But I don't see any of that in any of the candidates. We see pork-barrelling, we've even got one newspaper which has a 'porkameter', and they're up to $38-billion each as if they can buy our votes. This is an insult.

Geraldine Doogue: Nevertheless, you will have to cast your vote, come the 24th.

Barry : Yes.

Geraldine Doogue: In the past have you been in this state of mind? Have you been undecided in the past?

Barry : Oh yes.

Geraldine Doogue: So where are you leaning this time, and on what issue primarily?

Barry : Well I would like to see a candidate exhibit some sense of propriety and humanity and sense of justice and honesty, and stand up and actually behave that way. I'm sure all the candidates are well-meaning and sincere people. Even Mr Costello sometimes comes across as having a glimpse of humanity in him when he marched across the bridge, and then he's a Republican; but he doesn't behave that way n the big arena, more's the pity I think. If he did, he'd have much more currency with people like me.

I mean if there was a ticket which had Howard's head on the top, and a box that said 'Not him', that's what I'd vote. But unfortunately there's going to be two other candidates there or more, and I'll probably have a protest vote again.

Geraldine Doogue: You mean like Greens or something?

Barry : But if I had to then deal my preferences out, I'd probably go to - not to the Liberals.

Geraldine Doogue: Not to the Liberals.

Barry : Yes, to the other side, not that I've got any great hopes that they're going to be all that different, right?

Geraldine Doogue: Well Barry, thank you. I'm sure you do sum up a particular strand of this population's views in some of those eloquent thoughts. Thanks very much indeed Barry Restall.

Barry : No problem.

Geraldine Doogue: Well we've wandered along, having actually met an undecided voter, and having had a pen picture of this particular electorate. We've wandered along to Caddy's in Carrington Street in Lismore, to have a forum, where we're going to meet a range of people. In fact it's quite a range of people here. And the two key candidates, and also several people from the area who are good, skilled observers, and I want to welcome you all this afternoon. Welcome to Saturday Extra.

Geraldine Doogue: Now I could ask for volunteers. Who's going to be the worm today? We've got various sorts of placards, and various people I think representing different interest groups, 'No Coal Mines', 'Help End Marijuana Prohibition' and so on and so forth. So no doubt we'll hear from all of you this afternoon. But let's actually hear from the candidates, who are putting themselves up, who've actually stood up and declared themselves as ready to serve this electorate.

Chris Gulaptis, who's standing for the National in the seat. He's a new chum to this particular business. He's standing because the previous sitting member, Ian Causley, has stepped down, though he certainly knows about local politics. He's run a small business himself, he's a former Mayor, and he's currently a Clarence Valley Councillor, and he claims to have topped every poll he's ever contested.

Janelle Safin is standing for Labor, opposite him. She was a lawyer, and she's worked on human rights issues. She was quite closely involved in East Timor's transition to government. She sat in the New South Wales Legislative Council for eight years, and she's a long-time resident of Lismore. So you two are first cabs off the rank.

Chris Gulaptis, how the heck do you represent such a broad range of people, you know, your original farmers, together with true alternative lifestylers, and keep true to yourself? How do you do it?

Chris Gulaptis: Well can I be corny and say that's why I joined the National Party, because essentially it is still a rural seat, it is 16-1/2-thousand square ks from north to south. There are diverse interests, it's changing over the years in terms of demographics, but at heart, it still is a country electorate, and I think if you are a country person at heart, then you understand what flows through the veins of an electorate like this.

Geraldine Doogue: So are you going to be a sort of Barnaby Joyce National or a Mark Vail National? Because it's a pretty broad church, isn't it?

Chris Gulaptis: Yes, I'm going to be a Chris Gulaptis National. Look, a lot of people have asked 'Are you going to be like Barnaby Joyce and cross the floor?' I hope you ask the other candidates whether they're going to cross the floor, because I think when they cross the floor, they get expelled. At least Barnaby, when he crosses the floor, he doesn't get expelled because the Nationals do allow you to have a conscience vote, they do allow you to think about your electorate. And the electorate does obviously come first.

Geraldine Doogue: Now Janelle Safin, how do you see this? Sitting for the Legislative Council of New South Wales, a very different territory to standing in such a broad group of people. So how do you do it and end up being true?

Janelle Safin: Across Page, there's a diverse group of people and it's still essentially rural in many ways, but there's also a big coastal strip and there's the pressure of urbanisation. But culturally, we see ourselves as somewhat rural, rural and regional country, so that exists, but there's some common needs across the electorate

Geraldine Doogue: OK, well look, let's meet here on Saturday Extra, four members of the Page range of constituencies to join us now.

Tony Davies, is the Chief Executive Officer of the Northern Rivers Social Development Council. That's the peak body for NGOs, really the community organisations in the region.

Russell Kelly is the Executive Officer of the Northern Rivers Organisation, the peak body for the local governments in the region, very important post that he occupies.

Stephanie Hannah is here with us in a private capacity. She's done quite a lot of social development work in the past. She co-runs, with her husband, a local steel fabrication business. They employ two people, one apprentice, and they've been at this for about 18 months now. She has a long background in the area, two young children in childcare here.

And Bob Rutherford is the local Uniting Church minister. He's here with us today to give us a bit of a flavour of some of the people whom a church tends to meet, but he's speaking to us predominantly as a private citizen. So I want to welcome you all.

Maybe I could actually go to you first, Russell Kelly. What do you see as the main outstanding, unsolved issues in this area, that people might be voting on?

Russell Kelly: Well from the point of view of local councils, the big issue is infrastructure. We have an electorate under enormous change. We're one of the most fast-growing areas of Australia, and in fact the statistics show that 25% of Australia's population is predicted to live between Coff's Harbour and Harvey Bay, by the year 2021.

Geraldine Doogue: That's an incredible figure, isn't it?

Russell Kelly: It's a huge number of people, and of course the local councils which I'm here representing today, are at the forefront of providing infrastructures for that influx of people. And so for councils, infrastructure of course, is important, because it's about the services that people need. So it's all about our major highways like the Pacific Highway, which is at breaking point in terms of its traffic; it's about important connecting roads such as the Bruxner Highway and the Bangalow Road locally here in Page. And it's also about the other forms of connection and infrastructure connection for our community, such as broadband, which is a vital one for economic development in this region, and also the future of our water, and our water supplies.

Geraldine Doogue: So let me ask you this: does either Federal party understand in your view sufficiently, what's facing this region?

Russell Kelly: We like what we're hearing from both parties at the moment.

Geraldine Doogue: I knew you'd say that. Very wise, Russell.

Russell Kelly: We'd like to hear a bit more. There have been some good announcements about the Pacific Highway, but there's more needed on that. That's an $8-billion infrastructure project which local councils from Newcastle to Brisbane have set a goal of completing a safer dual carriageway by 2016. Now $8-billion is a lot of money, and unless the funding of that project doubles, every year between now and 2016, it won't be built.

In terms of water, and getting back to the population increase that we've had recently, South East Queensland is in the middle of a man-made drought, and it's vital for the Councils in our region that we don't get sucked in to the same kind of problems that result from lack of forward planning that's occurring in South East Queensland.

Geraldine Doogue: OK. Now Tony Davies, you sit there from an NGO perspective, trying to I suppose, fill in some of the gaps that maybe the local governments don't fill in. What other points would you nominate as being an issue here?

Tony Davies: OK, I'd agree with Russell about the need for infrastructure, it's really important. But when we talk about infrastructure we've got to talk about social infrastructure as well. What are the services, what are the thing the community needs to thrive and prosper? As we keep being told, we're in the midst of unprecedented good times, and a decade or more of economic growth. That hasn't really trickled out to the regions, and we need both sides to obviously invest more in the communities. When we talk about infrastructure we talk about things like real solutions to affordable housing; with transport we need to look at public transport, ways to get people around, that's increasingly important in this region, as we see petrol prices go through the roof. And when you live here, you've got to have a private car at the moment in order to exist. And that's going to get really hard when petrol hits $200 a barrel.

Geraldine Doogue: Yes, don't talk about that please. It gives me a headache.

Tony Davies: OK. We also need to look at some solutions around health care as well, it's really important, particularly primary health care, health care for people that don't have high incomes who can't afford to pay for doctors, because of course, I can think of only one doctor between here and the coast that bulk bills, and she'll only let you go to her if you live in the village in which she practices.

Geraldine Doogue: I think you've got one oncologist I heard, in the seat of Page. Tell me if I'm wrong. One dermatologist, is that right?

Tony Davies: Look I can't comment on individual medical specialties, what I will say is there are few specialists in the area and some key gaps. The classic one would be endocrinologists. We have an aging population, rapidly aging. Some parts of this seat will have a third of their population aged over 65 in the next ten years.

Geraldine Doogue: And you also have some of the highest rates of dental decay and missing teeth in Australia, I'm told. In other words, dental services is a major issue?

Tony Davies: Absolutely. We'd love to see a return of the public dental service. I mean around Australia there are 600,000 people who need access to public dental health care, and that creates real problems for people in regions, who can't afford to pay for dentists, people on low income.

Geraldine Doogue: Well maybe Stephanie Hannah, this is a good point to bring you in, because I know you've been a development worker in the past, but you're now a small business owner. The tax cuts part of this whole campaign, that's where it kicked off on the Monday, if you recall, when the election was announced; was that welcomed by people in the area, or would they have preferred more services, as we've just been hearing from Tony?

Stephanie Hannah: Well I can only base it on listening to ABC locally, where everyone else was when that got announced, and the response to radio that day was that no people would rather see it produced in services in our area, that maybe having those extra tax cuts in their pocket would just go to more spending, consumeristic or materialistic, that we'd actually see it in services, like health services.

Geraldine Doogue: Do you think that when people really come to stand in that polling booth, though, that they will vote on that? Like more money in the pocket to pay the mortgage which I know the house prices here have exploded, so people are up against it. I mean do you think those tax cuts might really appeal to them?

Stephanie Hannah: I'm not sure, you'd probably have to ask the people that are here.

Geraldine Doogue: I will ask further, but yourself, might it affect you?

Stephanie Hannah: For me, working within the community previously, I would like to see it in services, definitely, because people are crying out for services.

Geraldine Doogue: And what key services would you like?

Stephanie Hannah: For example childcare, with women returning back to work. For some it's not a choice, but they have to use childcare services. More pay for childcare workers for example, and so you attract more qualified people to the industry, and they stay. More resources to childcare. I mean within this town we have a lot of private childcare, and so we'd like to see more resources in community preschools for example, and so people, women, can have the choice to work and maintain work.

Geraldine Doogue: And how do you see, as a small businessperson, which you're really trying to set yourself and your husband, up in the steel fabrication business, so you most definitely are showing an entrepreneurial spirit. What do you need? What could you be given that might help you to employ more people in this region?

Stephanie Hannah: For us, we've been in business only a short time, so I'm not as experienced as some people in the community may be, so I can only talk on behalf of our experience, and it has been that we have an apprentice and we're very happy with our apprentice. And there has been some support through the apprenticeship centres, which have been tendered out to different organisations. We have found it extremely difficult to find a qualified tradesperson. I think this country facing as the Howard government has said, more resource, like a resource boom, and so that's in a lot of the steel fabrications to the mining industry, and so we've found it very hard. So in terms of expansion of our business, that's been difficult, like the demand there for our work is there but just expanding, it has been very difficult.

Geraldine Doogue: All right, well let me turn to Bob Rutherford and then you can all interrupt each other and I'll actually throw it open to various members of the public who are here with their various placards and so on. Bob Rutherford, you get to see I sense, from what you were telling me, you get to see the people who are really doing it tough, as well as people who are doing it well. What's your sense of the morale of this broad-based seat of Page?

Bob Rutherford: I guess there's an air of expectancy. There's certainly the people we see through the church, and certainly the people I meet on a daily basis, are looking for -

Geraldine Doogue: So an air of expectancy about this election you mean?

Bob Rutherford: Absolutely, yes. People are not wanting more of the same. I tend to agree with Stephanie in terms of the people we see, when we're talking about the tax cuts, the people that come through the door of the regional mission, most definitely would like to see the money spent on provision of services. They don't want tax cuts. They don't believe it's -

Geraldine Doogue: Really?

Bob Rutherford: No. The attitude to us has been, 'OK, they give us a few extra dollars in our pocket, but then fuel goes up and we still can't get to the services we need because the fuel's gone up; or groceries have increased an enormous amount because of the need to transport stuff in, and so on. And we still don't get to the services we need because we can't afford to get there.

Geraldine Doogue: So that's a sort of a collective idea versus individual. They think that someone's got to spend money on the big stuff?

Bob Rutherford: Absolutely, yes.

Geraldine Doogue: OK. You're with us here on Saturday Extra on ABC Radio National, and we're conducting a forum, not necessarily of a representative group of Page constituents, but there's certainly a good number of you here at Caddy's in one of the main streets of Lismore. And I'm actually going to invite our various constituents who are holding up - I must say there's one particular placard being held up which I'm going to ask Chris Gulaptis about. 'Federal Funding for our Rail System'. Now I think three years ago, Chris, the local State Minister, Michael Costa, stopped the rail going beyond Casino, which is also in the electorate, and said that there needed to be a billion dollars spent on upgrading all your various rail bridges, and that in effect the State government didn't have that money to spend because they think they're short-changed in Commonwealth-State agreements, and so they said We can't afford to be taking any risks, we're going to stop the rail service, and they provided buses instead. And that's caused a lot of angst, I gather. Are you speaking to that?

Chris Gulaptis: Absolutely. But let's not forget that the State government actually runs the line. They run the line, so irrespective of an upgrade of the line, which is at a significant cost, and the significant cost that I understand it to be is about $150-million for this section of the line. Now that's not substantiated, that's just the amount that I've heard through the National Party. And the concern is that a few years ago it was $30-million, when the Federal government matched that amount, it sort of seemed to jump. So the Gold Coast keep moving every time an agreement is reached.

Geraldine Doogue: But this is infuriating, isn't it?

Chris Gulaptis: You betcha. It's not just infuriating for the public, it's infuriating for me because it's very difficult to actually be able to deliver - not a promise, because you don't want to deliver a promise, you want to deliver an outcome. Very hard to deliver an outcome when you're working with a recalcitrant State government that don't want the line to continue. It's quite clear. And clearly there's fantastic benefits to have the line there. Those benefits would include for example, if you've got a line between Casino to Murwillumbah the Lismore-Bangalow road, which takes up part of that line, it runs parallel to it, has over 10,000 cars a day on it. Now if you could attract 10% of that travelling population to get onto a train, that's 365,000 cars a year. Well they're not all going to do that, but you could say 300,000 cars a year off the road. That's improving your greenhouse gas emissions if you like, reducing them. That's taking stress off the roads, that's giving people another transport option, it's introducing tourism as another component if that line was to be extended from, say, Murwillumbah to the Gold Coast, there's fantastic options available, and the State government needs to come to the party, because certainly I see the merit in it and it's something that I would advocate for if you knew that you could have some co-operation with the State government.

Geraldine Doogue: Well Janelle Safin, would Labor have any more lease on the State government, given it's a State Labor government?

Janelle Safin: Look, with the train, of course I'd love to have the trains running, I'd love to have all the trains, I'd love to have the commuter that people have wanted for years here, but there's been a rollback under all governments with the train. The money just hasn't been there, and people have made all sorts of promises that they actually can't accommodate. The fact is, -

Geraldine Doogue: So you're not making any?

Janelle Safin: The fact is, we need to have Norocks put up on behalf of the region, they want an integrated transport study plan, and that's what we need to have for the region.

Geraldine Doogue: Just before I throw it open to everybody, you're going to probably need if you're going to win, and you're up against it, you'll need Green preferences won't you? This had a very high, 10%, Green vote last time; there's some doubt as to maybe with redistribution that might have faltered a bit. What are you saying to those potential voters, and have you done any deals with the Greens?

Janelle Safin: I haven't done any deals, but what I'm saying is there's a whole range of policies, but of course climate change, we actually with Kevin Rudd, we have a plan for climate change. We have Framework for Action, it has ten key actions in it. The first one signing the Kyoto Protocol, a commitment to renewables of 20% and also targeting and supporting householders, communities and schools, makes some sort of savings in transition. So we actually have a plan which is contrary to John Howard and the Nationals who have no plan.

Geraldine Doogue: OK. Now I'm going to throw it open, we've got a roving mic, actually you'll have to come up here, sorry. And if you can just announce your name please, and preferably don't make it to single issue. (CALL FROM AUDIENCE) OK, got that. Yes. So carry on.

George Pickett: Stole my thunder. I work up at the local TAFE at Wollongbar, and I'd just like to say something about the TAFE. We're a reasonable-sized campus, and I work in the Electrical Trades, and I've been working for about 10 years, and we've had a steady growth in the number of students. And we produce I think, quality students, and I think it's an area that TAFE has an enormous amount of expertise, and I think also industry is very happy with the result.

Now the question I have to Chris is could you explain to me why Mr Howard has announced 100 technical colleges to be built for x-billion dollars?

Chris Gulaptis: TAFE is a wonderful organisation, my own personal experiences with TAFE in the North Coast Computer Project, which I chair, has been very successful in delivering that outcome. But TAFE is not the only deliverer of skills services, and that's why the Australian Technical Colleges funding is proposed by the government. That is about $2.1-billion for 100 Australian Technical Colleges across the country, some of which you would expect to be built within the regions, and there's no reason why TAFE couldn't apply to be an Australian Technical College.

George Pickett: OK, well the fact is that the TAFE funding over the last ten years has probably dropped by 20%. You can't tell me that they are totally impartial about TAFE. I think they seem to me, to have an ideological thing going with TAFE. If TAFE is doing such a great job, why don't they fund more TAFEs? It's very simple, and if they're doing a good job ...

Geraldine Doogue: Now we've got another question here please.

Angela Pollard: Thank you. I'm part of the local Your Rights at Work Group, and my question is to you, Chris, and you can respond too, if you like, Janelle, and it's in relation to the impact of WorkChoices on our electorate. As we know, this area has the lowest weekly average wage in the country, and a lot of us are doing it tough. Can you explain to me why people on the lowest incomes have to disproportionately be damaged by WorkChoices legislation on the spurious basis that they have to suffer the pain to somehow miraculously reduce the unemployment rates in this region?

Geraldine Doogue: Chris.

Chris Gulaptis: We've got 77-1/2-thousand labour force in the Page electorate. 77-1/2-thousand. Prior to WorkChoices there were 2,250 AWAs in place. Since WorkChoices there's only another 1.050, come into effect. That's 3,300 AWAs out of 77-1/2-thousand labour force. So it's about WorkChoices, it's not about AWAs. What WorkChoices has done has enabled small business, and we've got 16-1/2-thousand small businesses in Page, that's a high proportion; small business is like a family, 16-1/2-thousand small businesses, and that's meant that those people can actually employ someone, which means that they have the opportunity to take a punt, they don't have to suffer the unfair dismissal laws for a small business. It's a big thing, and it's why unemployment has dropped in the area, and as far as being the lowest are in terms of incomes per capita, we were that before WorkChoices, and we're that because it's a seachange, treechange destination. People have been coming here, like myself some 27 years ago, and you make a sacrifice to live here because you enjoy living her, you enjoy the sun, the surf, the environment, and people make a sacrifice. (COMMENT FROM AUDIENCE) So do I, I want to be valued too, but I make a choice to live here because I enjoy living here, and if I have to make a choice, then I'll make that choice.

Geraldine Doogue: Now Chris, quickly before I go to Janelle, but honestly, can you tell me that people aren't coming up to you and bringing their own tales about worries about WorkChoices? Are you saying that nobody's worried?

Chris Gulaptis: The doorknocking that I've done, and it's significant, it has not been a priority issue. I'll give you a classic example, I knocked on a door in Ballina and a fellow came out the door and I introduced myself, and he said, 'Oh, there's got to be a change'. And I said, 'Oh yes, OK, well you've got to be careful what you change to.' And his answer to me was 'Howard's got to go. Look, I'm a nurse, and my rates have been cut, my hours have been cut, the price of bananas ...' And I said, 'Well hang on, I don't want to hear about the price of bananas, you're on a State award, so how are you affected by WorkChoices if you're on a State award? You can't be forced onto an AWA. If an AWA's going to be introduced into the workplace, it has to be'- well read the LA Law Legislation, thank you, read the law, understand the law, please. You cannot be forced onto an AWA.

Geraldine Doogue: OK. All right. Well now it's just interesting to hear the level of emotion. Now Janelle, how do you answer this issue?

Janelle Safin: OK. Chris and I must be knocking on different doors. Because the issue of WorkChoices, John Howard's extreme unfair workplace legislation, comes up every day that I doorknock right across the electorate. It's an issue.

Geraldine Doogue: It's an issue, OK.

Janelle Safin: And you're dreaming if you say it's not.

Geraldine Doogue: I just want to ask everybody because I'm just aware of our time. I'm going to ask our invited guests here to just give me, if they can in one sentence, what do you think will be the key question governing people's votes in this area? First to you, Bob Rutherford.

Bob Rutherford: I think people just want their voices to be heard. I don't expect in the people I deal with, and I know that for them to have to travel out of this town to go to Queensland to get treatment for their health, as pensioners and so on, that's something that they are fed up with. So health is going to be a major issue.

Geraldine Doogue: Stephanie?

Stephanie Hannah: I just think in terms of the Page and the Green issue are really important, I think that the infrastructure that we build in our communities for future generations has to be sustainable, it has to be Green for it to last, and I think that we as a community really need more of a help with services and equitable access to services in this community so we improve the quality of our community.

Geraldine Doogue: So Green issues and services. Janelle.

Janelle Safin: Key issue, key issues. WorkChoices.

Geraldine Doogue: Tony Davies?

Tony Davies: OK look there's a lot of anxiety out there: interest rate rises, what's going to happen to the cost of petrol, we mentioned that before, can my children stay in this region. As a parent and speaking to every parent here, you know, your kids, they reach 18, they have to leave the region. That happened to me, my first job was in a shop in Lismore Square but I've spent 20 years working in Sydney because the family goes there for services. My family had to move to Sydney back then so my mother could access cancer treatment. There's still no cancer treatment facility in Lismore. And also the welfare, the connection between support for people who are unemployed coming into the workforce, it has to provide security to people, it has to provide incentives to get into work and support and not be punitive.

Geraldine Doogue: OK. So vision for the future for here. And Chris?

Chris Gulaptis: Yes, without doubt the key issue is health, it's health right across the electorate and even though the electorate is essentially spread in two parts with Grafton being the focus of the southern part, the issue down there is the Grafton Base Hospital, and the issue in the northern part -

Geraldine Doogue: I think both leaders have made pledges about that.

Chris Gulaptis: In the northern part of the electorate it's about the oncology unit, there's no doubt about that.

Geraldine Doogue: Well look, thank you all very much. (AUDIENCE REMARK) Well, that's why I asked everybody to nominate. I must say it's been really fascinating, I know I overuse this word, but just to see I suppose the thousands of people who voted with their feet to move up here, and what I've heard back is I don't know whether governments generally fully grasp the scale of the challenge at stake in making this a viable community for the future, and so look, it's been fantastic, thank you all very, very much indeed. Worms and all. And thanks for coming along to Caddies, much appreciated, and a particular thanks to Chris Gulaptis, Janelle Safin, Tony Davies, Russell Kelly, Stephanie Hannah and Bob Rutherford.

Geraldine Doogue: And next week on Saturday Extra we're travelling a bit further north, to the seat of Blair, which with it's centre in Ipswich, to hear some similar and yet some different observations, very much this question about the country's moving to this part of Australia, and maybe the rest of us should take notice. So thanks very much indeed for your time.

Guests

Chris Gulaptis
Nationals candidate for the seat of Page

Russell Kelly
CEO Northern Rivers Regional Organisation of Councils

Janelle Safin
Labor candidate for the seat of Page

Tony Davies
CEO Northern Rivers Social Development Council

Bob Rutherford
Reverend with the Lismore Regional Mission

Stephanie Hannah
Small business owner with a background in community development

Presenter

Geraldine Doogue

Story Researcher and Producer

Scott Wales