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11 June 2008

Dalai Lama protests; Iranian Baha'is disappear ; Chaplains in State Schools;

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The Dalai Llama faces protests from within the Shugden Buddhist community on his Australian tour; The latest news on a group of Baha'i activists who were arrested by the Iranian government and have disappeared; Senator Lyn Allison on problems bedding down Federally funded chaplains in state schools;

Transcript


Transcript

This transcript was typed from a recording of the program. The ABC cannot guarantee its complete accuracy because of the possibility of mishearing and occasional difficulty in identifying speakers.

Kelsang Pema's Dalai Llama protest
Tessa Scrine on Iranian Baha'i arrests
Rev. John Henderson on Iranian Baha'i arrests
Senator Lyn Alison on State School chaplains

Stephen Crittenden: Welcome to the program.

This week the Dalai Lama returns to Australia in fact for the second time in a little over a year. And as we go to air this morning, he's giving a press conference in Sydney. No doubt the issue of Tibetan autonomy will be high on the agenda.

Security during this visit will be extra tight, and not just because of the problems the Dalai Lama has with the Chinese. Everywhere he travels in the world these days he's pursued by screaming Tibetan Buddhist protestors, and his visit to Sydney is likely to be disrupted by the same highly organised campaign.

CHANTING 'Dalai Lama stop lying' 'Religion Freedom"

Stephen Crittenden: That's a recent protest rally outside the Albert Hall in London.

The reasons behind these protests are either incredibly simple or incredibly complicated. The simple explanation is that for some years the Dalai Lama has been trying to eradicate the veneration of an obscure Tibetan deity called Dorje Shugden. Followers of Dorje Shugden say he's an emanation of the Buddha; the Dalai Lama says he is an evil spirit.

But there's also a more complex explanation. For years, the Dalai Lama has been attempting to unite the main strands or lineages of Tibetan Buddhism under his spiritual authority. But he's running up against fundamentalist groups even within his own Gelugpa strand, many of them Western Buddhists. And as he's tried to exclude the practice of praying to Dorje Shugden, Dhorje Shugden seems to have become more and more central to their practice.

They say the Dalai Lama is a hypocrite who campaigns for human rights in Tibet but persecutes his own people, and that monks and nuns have been forbidden to follow Dorje Shugden and when they resist they have been ejected from monasteries.

So who or what is Dorje Shugden, and who are these saffron-clad protestors? Kelsang Pema is a spokesman for the Western Shugden Society. She's a British Buddhist nun who has been a prominent figure in protest rallies in the UK and she's just flown into Sydney.

Kelsang Pema: Dorje Shugden is a Buddha from the Buddhist tradition. He's a deity who has been prayed to and whose teachings have been followed for up to 400 years. The Dalai Lama himself practiced this prayer and the teachings until the 1970s when he had either a change of faith or a change of heart. And he himself personally decided not to follow this any more. It's a very simple practice which Buddhist people follow in order to develop pure minds of love, compassion, wisdom and spiritual protection.

Now the Dalai Lama has had a change of faith and not being satisfied with his own change of faith he decided to inflict this upon the Buddhist community in general internationally, and this is the problem that we face at the moment, because he is saying that people who follow this deity, Dorje Shugden, are no longer Buddhist.

Stephen Crittenden: Why is he opposed to it? My understanding is that this is a fairly unusual practice, is that right?

Kelsang Pema: I would say it's definitely not an unusual practice, it's 400 years old.

Stephen Crittenden: That's a pretty short length of time in Buddhist terms I suppose.

Kelsang Pema: No, not when you consider that the new tradition the Dalai Lama himself created is only about 15 years old.

Stephen Crittenden: Am I right in thinking that Dorje Shugden is a somewhat malevolent emanation of the Buddha?

Kelsang Pema: Oh, absolutely not, no. He's a protector, and protector from the point of view of as I say his purpose is simply to encourage people to develop pure minds of love, compassion, wisdom and spiritual protection, they're not malevolent, the practice is not harmful and it cannot have any harmful effects, because that would be complete contradiction to the nature of the practice.

Stephen Crittenden: As it's been explained to me, the background to this story is that the Dalai Lama over many years now, has been trying to unify all the major strands of Tibetan Buddhism, and that your group is really resisting his spiritual authority, and that the Dalai Lama has run up against the cult of Dorje Shugden. It's a practice that he sees as an obstacle in the path to this greater unification of the various strands that he's trying to bring about.

Kelsang Pema: Not entirely correct, one becuase Dorje Shugden practice is not cultic; second, he's not running up against us, he himself is causing division within the British community because his two reasons that he's publicly given for abandoning these practices. 1) it causes his lifespan to shorten; and 2) it interferes with Tibetan independence. Well the guy is 72 years old, so it's obviously not very harmful to his life span, and it actually has more ability to harm anybody's lifespan, let alone the Dalai Lama's and second, he's publicly said many times recently, that he's not interested in Tibetan independence. So if they're the two valid reasons he's given, then there's no valid reason left for abandoning the practice.

Stephen Crittenden: But is it true that your group is a rejectionist group within the Gelugpa tradition, a movement that rejects the spiritual authority of the Dalai Lama?

Kelsang Pema: No, that's not correct, because if the Dalai Lama would just allow people to have religious freedom, they'd be very happy to accept him. I think one gross misunderstanding in the West is that the Dalai Lama is perceived to be the Buddhist leader per se. He's not. If you got to Burma, Sri Lanka and so forth, ask those Buddhists who's their Buddhist leader, definitely they would not say the Dalai Lama, and even within Tibet, Tibetan Buddhism, the position of Dalai Lama has never had authority over the other three schools of Tibetan Buddhism. Only now in this century, during the time of this 14th Dalai Lama has such a proposed unification been proposed.

Stephen Crittenden: That's why I raised the question. I mean what the Dalai Lama's project has been over recent decades, he's been trying to unify all the major strands of Tibetan Buddhism under his authority, that's correct, isn't it?

Kelsang Pema: According to him, yes. But if you check with each of the other schools, actually this is not correct, because each of the other three schools also are fighting an internal turmoil because the Dalai Lama is cutting of limbs of those branches also. The Karmapas, for example, they've been paralysed for many years because the Dalai Lama is interfering with their tradition. In the same way he's now trying to reorganize the Gelugpa school.

Stephen Crittenden: So this is as much to do with the authority of the Dalai Lama as it is to do with a simple prayer?

Kelsang Pema: I think the two become mixed because of the Dalai Lama's own agenda. As we all know, he has two hats, he has his political and he has his religious, and it definitely seems that he's using both hats to accomplish one aim, and this is where a lot of the problems are stemming from.

Stephen Crittenden: How many Buddhists around the world follow Dorje Shugden?

Kelsang Pema: There are actually millions of them internationally, and even within Tibet alone, over one-third of the population relied upon the practice of Dorje Shugden.

Stephen Crittenden: But your group, if I'm correct, your group has grown up in the West. Are you part of the New Kadampa tradition?

Kelsang Pema: No, we're the Western Shugden Society.

Stephen Crittenden: Right, and they're separate groups?

Kelsang Pema: They're completely separate, the New Kadampa tradition is a registered company and charity, the Western Shugden Society is simply a group of Dorje Shugden practitioners who come together to be heard by the Dalai Lama, because for 20 years individual practitioners have been writing letters requesting audiences, sending faxes to the Dalai Lama requesting him to explain his position and to basically allow religious freedom to prevail within the Buddhist community, and he's not even acknowledged such requests. So therefore we've decided together to unify and with one voice ask him.

Stephen Crittenden: Right. I have to say I've read your letter on your website. It's a pretty tough, strident letter. It's really a letter of demand, I'm not surprised he hasn't answered it.

Kelsang Pema: Well considering we've sent countless letters and petitions over the course of 20 years, we have no choice, we were forced into a corner, you know, especially when in January he initiated a referendum which basically if you follow his view, you receive an identity card, which is your passport to human freedom within the Tibetan in Exile community. Without it, and that means if you continue to practice Dorje Shugden you're a victim to any number of atrocities.

Stephen Crittenden: You're following him wherever he goes around the world on his travels, protesting. And this will be the first big protest of this kind in Australia.

Kelsang Pema: Correct. We started in America in April. We were in Germany with three demonstrations and three recently in the UK, and now we have them in Australia.

Stephen Crittenden: And will these be peaceful protests?

Kelsang Pema: Absolutely. We have completely pure intention and motivation and our intention is simply to protect one pure ancient lineage from being destroyed without valid reason and our motivation is compassion. So there's no anger, there's no hostility. We're just looking for a peaceful resolution. Of course we make noise, but without noise we're not heard, and that's been proved over 20 years through the correspondence that he's ignored.

Stephen Crittenden: Pema, given the political situation that the Dalai Lama is dealing with at present with the Chinese and the Tibetan situation, I have to ask you the question that most Australians are sure to be asking: are you agents of the Chinese Communist Party or are you their dupes?

Kelsang Pema: Absolutely not. You can check me out, do whatever you like, I've got no connections with the Chinese at all, and I have to say to you that this is just again the propaganda of the Dalai Lama's camp because there's no valid reason for claiming that.

Stephen Crittenden: But surely it's nothing to do with propaganda to make the point that your protest at this extremely inauspicious time, can only, surely it can only, undermine the Dalai Lama's authority and weaken the situation of the Tibetan people. The Chinese must be laughing their heads off.

Kelsang Pema: I don't know what the Chinese are doing but I wouldn't say this is inauspicious when I'm witnessing people being denied medicine, people being denied education, being ostracised from their homes, being vicitmised and threatened simply because they want to maintain this prayer. They don't want to encourage other people to practice it, they just simply want to get on with their own spiritual life, and that's happening because of the Dalai Lama initiating, endorsing, and proactively campaigning for the abolishing of this practice.

Stephen Crittenden: Where is this persecution that you're alleging? Where is it happening?

Kelsang Pema: It's happening right now as I speak in India, and even last week in Paris, the Dalai Lama's own sister was travelling around encouraging people to abandon this practice, and in America also.

Stephen Crittenden: Is it true that the Panchen Lama, the fake Panchen Lama, the Chinese Panchen Lama has got himself mixed up in this controversy? I know he's been photographed in front of an image of the Dorje Shugden?

Kelsang Pema: I don't feel I'm in a position to comment because I don't know much about that situation.

Stephen Crittenden: That's Kelsang Pema, who's a spokesman for the Western Shugden Society.

On May 14th, a group of six prominent members of the Baha'i community in Iran disappeared from their homes. They have been held incommunicado ever since, together with a seventh member of the community, amid mounting international concern for their safety, particularly because this group, as a group, effectively makes up the leadership of the Iranian Baha'i community.

The Baha'i have long faced persecution in Iran, and the Commonwealth Parliament here in Australia has passed resolutions condemning that persecution in the past.

Following these latest disappearances, the Foreign Affairs Department has expressed its concern, the human rights subcommittee of the parliament has written to the Iranian Ambassador, and now a coalition of Australian religious groups has added its voice to the growing expressions of concern.

Tessa Scrine is the Executive Officer for Government Relations for the Baha'i community in Australia.

Tessa Scrine: Good morning Stephen. Yes, on 14th May six Baha'is who act as leaders in Iran were arrested in the early hours of the morning. They were Mrs. Fariba Kamalabadi, Jamaloddin Khanjani, Afif Naeimi, Saeid Rezaie, Behrouz Tavakkoli and Vahid Tizfahm. These are people who in the absence of an elected Baha'i leadership which we cannot have in Iran, because an elected leadership has been banned, they informally play that role, so they're prominent in the sense that they are serving the Iranian Baha'i community as national leaders.

There was one other, Mrs Mahvash Sabet, and she had already been arrested in Mashad in March. So these seven together formed the national leadership of the Baha'i community and they are now all in prison, as far as we know.

Stephen Crittenden: Are their whereabouts known?

Tessa Scrine: No, their whereabouts aren't known. We originally thought that they were in Avin Prison in Teheran, but since their arrest we haven't been able to confirm that. Their families have been unable to visit them, the authorities won't confirm or deny where they are, and this in itself is of great concern to us.

Stephen Crittenden: And a number of the members of this group have relatives here in Australia, that's correct, isn't it?

Tessa Scrine: Yes they do. Two most prominently, one of the women has a sister and one of the men has a brother, so this is a matter that strikes right at the heart for our community. As a community we're concerned for all the Bahai's, but for two members of the Australian Baha'i community it is for their blood relatives.

Stephen Crittenden: How many Baha'i are living in Iran at this moment?

Tessa Scrine: We understand it's around 300,000. Obviously because we're not able to function as we would in any other part of the world, we can only estimate the community. But most estimates are in the vicinity of 300,000-350,000, so we're the largest religious minority in Iran.

Stephen Crittenden: Is this all part of a pattern that we've seen before?

Tessa Scrine: We have a seen a pattern. If you like there's two patterns. There's one that goes back to the 1980s which really rings alarm bells for us with this situation, because at that stage, all of the members of the elected Baha'i leadership either disappeared or were executed, so obviously when we see that pattern repeated, we're very, very concerned. The other pattern that had played out in recent years is that members of the Baha'i community in Iran were playing some sort of role in helping to keep the community going and maintain its minimum activities, have been arrested. Often they're held without charge for varying lengths of time, and then they're released again, often with three extortionate bails, they're not properly charged, and a trial hangs over their head for months, if not years. And all of these patterns are in complete contradiction to the human rights obligations to which Iran is party.

Stephen Crittenden: I just want to pick up something you said earlier. Are you saying that what's happened on this occasion harks back to the 1980s when the elected leadership was arrested and in fact executed, that this is in a sense the rounding up of the unelected leadership 20 years later, is that what you're saying?

Tessa Scrine: Yes , and that's our great concern because obviously as a tactic, it's designed to instill fear in the community and to make it very difficult for them to function. You know, nothing strikes at people more deeply than executing the leadership of a religious community.

Stephen Crittenden: Two years ago on this program, we covered a statement of concern issued by the Australian parliament. On this occasion, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has expressed its concern; the Human Rights sub-committee of the parliament has written to the Iranian Ambassador, I understand. There's now also a statement from the Australian Partnership of Religious Organisations. Are you happy with the level of support you have been receiving?

Tessa Scrine: Yes of course Stephen, we welcome all this support, and it's very important to us. By keeping a spotlight on what's happening in Iran with human rights, there is some hope that the worst excesses of the persecution will be ameliorated. It's very important that this concern is ongoing, and that we don't lose momentum. So we welcome in particular the support of the Australian government, which has championed freedom of religion and belief in many parts of the world, and the other bodies that have a concern for human rights, the support of the Australian Partnership of Religious Organisations is important to us because these are other religious who know and value freedom of religion and belief, and are expressing their concern on the basis of this most important principle.

Stephen Crittenden: Is it time for a stronger statement from the government, from the Foreign Affairs Minister, perhaps?

Tessa Scrine: Well we understand that when DFAT speaks, it speaks with the endorsement of the Minister himself, and over the weekend in Geneva there was another statement by Australia at the Human Rights Council, on the issue of the situation of the Baha'is in Iran. We would of course welcome the Minister making a statement himself, but all of these statements are indicative of the Australian government's position and have meaning and weight and we believe will help to influence what happens in Iran.

Stephen Crittenden: Thank you very much for being on the program.

Tessa Scrine: Thank you, Stephen.

Stephen Crittenden: Tessa Scrine, who's the Executive Officer for Government Relations for the Baha'i community in Australia.

Now let's hear from the Reverend John Henderson from the National Council of Churches, one of the organisations that makes up the Australian Partnership of Religious Organisations. John, welcome to the program. What does this statement say?

John HendersonThanks Stephen. Look we have said that it is improper that the Iranian government have arrested these people, particularly on religious grounds, with no other basis for the arrest as far as we know. And that these folk need to have legal representation, communication with their families. The community needs to know where they're being detained and they need to be able to plead their case.

Stephen Crittenden: The Baha'i in Australia are a very prominent group, aren't they, in ecumenical circles. How closely do Australian religious groups generally take this issue? I mean is this a matter of constant attention?

John HendersonI think the concern of the religious groups and particularly from my side of the National Council of Churches in making this statement is to see that no-one is disadvantaged or there is no discrimination against them because of their religious belief and practice.

Stephen Crittenden: The Reverend John Henderson from the National Council of Churches, and indeed from the Australian partnership of Religious Organisations.

Ever since the Howard government introduced a program of school chaplains in public schools, there's been controversy, and that controversy shows no sign of abating. Last week in Senate Estimates, Democrat Senator Lyn Allison raised concerns that the chaplaincy program was being used to introduce a HIllsong project called 'Shine', aimed at teaching girls self esteem, through hair and make-up. The government has agreed to investigate. Here's Senator Lyn Allison.

Lyn Allison: Well first of all I'd say we're not opposed per se to chaplains in schools, I think if school communities wish to have them, if parents want them to be engaging with their children, I see no problem with that. But I do question $165-million being spent on a program which is largely discriminatory. So you can only get access to the $20,000 that's on offer to each school if you agree to have a religious chaplain. If that money was available to schools to engage a counselor who might do similar pastoral work, then I would be in favour of it, but it's not.

Stephen Crittenden: In Senate Estimates last week, you raised questions about the Hillsong 'Shine' program, and the government has said that it will investigate that. What's the problem?

Lyn Allison: I understand that Hillsong 'Shine' is designed for at-risk girls - and girls in regional areas - is my understanding. And the basis of that program is to build self-esteem, through make-up and discussion about being pretty, being attractive, making yourself beautiful. Now we know that at-risk use whilst they may engage in that kind of activity, will be further at risk by that being seen to be the only way in which they can fit into society. So I think any woman will tell you that problems run a bit deeper than just how to do make-up and how to make up your nails, that it is much more important that some more fundamental work is done on these young people who are at risk to uncover if you like, some of the problems that they might be having, and to deal with that in a professional way. And I don't regard exercises in make-up as being professional for these kids.

Stephen Crittenden: So are you suggesting that the chaplaincy program is being used by Hillsong almost as a Trojan Horse to get this fairly socially conservative program into schools?

Lyn Allison: Yes, I believe that's what's happening, particularly in Queensland where there's by far the largest uptake of chaplains and where Hillsong and the Scripture Union are very active in recruiting chaplains and encouraging schools to take them on. And it's been my experience that the schools themselves, who are supposed to give their approval across the board, there has to be broad consensus in a school for a chaplain to be there before the Commonwealth says it's OK. But my experience is that a lot of schools are not reaching broad consensus, in fact a lot of the parents are not even told that this is happening and that there is no formal procedure or process in place for parents to be asked Yes or No, whether they want their children involved.

Stephen Crittenden: Well I'll come to some of those issues in a moment. The other question I wanted to ask you about the Shine program is that it does seem to indicate, doesn't it, that chaplains are a lot more than passive presences in these schools?

Lyn Allison: Yes. And I find it difficult to imagine a chaplain who is engaged with students and young people who have problems, and that's where they will largely be used, to not be involved in counseling. But the Commonwealth does not require chaplains to have any particular level of qualifications, in fact I've heard that chaplains are recruited who haven't even finished Year 12, let alone a course in counseling. So I think that once you bring people into schools to work directly with children who may be at risk, maybe troubled, maybe having a bad time for whatever reason, you've got to be very, very careful about the people who deal with them in that environment.

Stephen Crittenden: We're hearing fairly widespread complaints from parents here at The Religion Report, especially parents in Queensland in the Northern Territory about irregularities in the way the program is being implemented. I know these are people who are coming to you and your office as well. What are the general issues they're raising with you?

Lyn Allison: Well they're saying that you ought to be able to determine whether or not your child is exposed to Christian religion being practiced in a school. Now whether that's proselytizing, that is, persuading people to become Christian, to join the church or whatever, or whether it is doing things like addressing School Assemblies, and that seems to be a fairly routine practice, in fact the Scripture Union lists that as being one of the activities which is appropriate for chaplains.

Stephen Crittenden: And would you say that having a chaplain addressing - on a regular basis - school assemblies or leading prayers at a school assembly, is not in the spirit of the program as it was explained to the public?

Lyn Allison: Well it seems to me not in the spirit of the program in a secular school. And it seems to me not in the spirit of the concept of agreement by parents for their children to be involved. I mean if you have a chaplain saying prayers at a school assembly what do you do with those children who might be Muslim and don't want to be involved in Christian practice? What do you do with those children who are not interested in religion and don't want to be part of that, they've got to be pulled away in some way, and of course children are not going to be interested in doing that, they don't want to be separated from their peers. So I think it should be where children are excluded, it should be carefully done, so that they are not identified in particular ways, either in favour of religion or not.

Stephen Crittenden: But you are saying that it appears the chaplains are being used in a way that it's very difficult for parents who don't want their kids exposed to them, to prevent that from happening?

Lyn Allison: Yes, it is very difficult for parents, who often don't even know what the chaplains are doing in schools, to know what sort of approval to give, often there's no form that describes the activities that might be under way with the chaplain, so there's very little information that's been passed to parents, form what I can gather. Now I quizzed the Commonwealth Department about this and asked them how often they monitored the situation, do they know what's going on? And the answer pretty much is, 'Well we haven't really looked at schools, we haven't done any inspections and we haven't done any close monitoring. We're leaving that up to the schools themselves.

Stephen Crittenden: Right, the door was open to let chaplains in, but there hasn't been much follow-up.

Lyn Allison: Well more than an open door, I think it's very difficult for schools when they're offered the carrot of $20,000 for someone to come into the school and assist. Schools are strapped for cash, they need more people involved in school activities, and so they're likely to say 'Yes', just because it's not available for them to spend on any other kind of assistance in schools. So as I said, they're not entitled to have a counselor and I know that many schools would much prefer to do that.

Stephen Crittenden: You mentioned Scripture Union, which appears to have well, almost a stranglehold on access to this chaplain's program in Queensland schools in particular. Scripture Union's charter is all about evangelisation. It's been involved for years in religious education classes in public schools. Isn't the role of chaplain, as it was explained to parents, meant to be anything but evangelisation?

Lyn Allison: Yes. In fact the Commonwealth guidelines say quite specifically that Chaplains should not be involved in proselytizing, so that does mean that they're not there to recruit children to the Christian cause, and yet you're right, the Scripture Union, as I understand it, that is their charter.

Stephen Crittenden: Are you saying that Scripture Union isn't the right fit?

Lyn Allison: I don't think so, because their charter is to reach children who are not currently engaged in religious practice, who don't go to church, so it's quite clearly those that they're targeting.

Stephen Crittenden: Is it true, Senator, that Scripture Union in Queensland has been able to pretty much monopolise access to the program in public schools in Queensland? I mean what do we know about the level of access that's been given to other denominations and other faith groups?

Lyn Allison: Look I think it's just that Scripture Union has taken the lead on this. They've been very quick off the mark as it were, in approaching schools, they have offered to broker these arrangements, so they have recruited the Chaplains and they have made them available to schools. There was a rule at the Commonwealth level, where you could, if you could not find a chaplain, you could engage a counselor for pastoral services, but only if a chaplain was not available. Now Scripture Union, as I understand it, has made sure that there have been chaplains who've been available, and they're recruiting actively all the time, as I understand it.

Stephen Crittenden: I've heard allegations from some parents of professional counsellors being pushed out to make way for chaplains, who have, as you say, no professional training as counsellors. Is there any evidence that you've come across that that's happening?

Lyn Allison: I have asked the Commonwealth this question in the past, and they don't have data on this. I don't have direct experience myself, but it doesn't surprise me. If you can get $20,000 for a chaplain and you expect the chaplain might be able to do what your counselor is currently doing, why would you not take the money? So no, I haven't had direct experience but as long as you have this discriminatory policy, then it provides the incentive to get rid of your counselor and use this new money on someone who might do similar work.

Stephen Crittenden: Senator Lyn Allison and we did approach Hillsong for a comment, but no-one was available.

Well that's all this week. Thanks to Noel Debien and John Diamond for production. Goodbye from Stephen Crittenden.


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