National Interest

Australia's first Gen X premier has hit the ground running. But then, anyone who has lived in the shadow of former Tasmanian premier Paul Lennon has plenty to prove. Can David Bartlett enthral or will he disappoint? Should he shake himself free of the more controversial aspects of Tasmanian Labor, or will he simply be Big Red minus the grumpiness? Bartlett says he wants to "reconnect" with voters and is confident he can avoid the fate of his predecessor. But with the divisive issue of a certain pulpmill never far from the service, politics in the Apple Isle can be tough.

Transcript

This transcript was typed from a recording of the program. The ABC cannot guarantee its complete accuracy because of the possibility of mishearing and occasional difficulty in identifying speakers.

Peter Mares: Late last month Paul Lennon stepped down as Premier of Tasmania after his approval rating slumped to just 17 per cent.

He was replaced by David Bartlett, who'd only been in parliament for four-and-a-bit years and had only been deputy premier for a matter of weeks.

The change has won the initial approval of Tasmanian voters, with Mr Bartlett tripling his predecessor's standing in the latest opinion polls. And David Bartlett joins me in The National Interest. Premier, thanks for your time.

David Bartlett: Thanks very much for having me.

Peter Mares: It's a rapid rise to become Premier a little more than four years after first entering Parliament.

David Bartlett: Well, commentators have described it as that, I guess. I always like to point out that, of course, Jim Bacon was only in the parliament for, in fact, two years before he became premier. But I think I guess people will make their decisions rather than on experience, I think they'll make their decisions about my capacity to do the job and that will come in time.

Peter Mares: You're obviously a very different character to your predecessor, Paul Lennon.

David Bartlett: Well, certainly Paul and I come from very different places and, I guess, different generations, in a sense. I've talked about a Tasmania that I want to see in the next ten years; but having said that, Tasmania has transformed significantly over the last 10, and Paul Lennon - both as deputy premier and then later on as premier, after Jim Bacon passed away - made a massive contribution to that.

Peter Mares: You ride a bike to work, for example - I think you mountain-bike through the forests in Tasmania. Whereas Paul Lennon struck me as more of your 4-wheel drive kind of guy.

David Bartlett: Well, certainly, I have a great love of the outdoors and a great love of the Tasmanian wilderness and Tasmania's natural assets: its coastline, its beaches, its forests, its mountains. I own a small block in the foothills of Mount Wellington and my view, therefore, is of a snow-capped mountain this morning, and that if I wasn't here I'd be out on my mountain bike riding the trails.

Peter Mares: And does that love of nature and love of the wilderness translate into a change in forest policy?

David Bartlett: Well, I've said right from the beginning that the parameters around Tasmania's forest industry have changed significantly over the last ten years and I expect that in my time as premier they'll change again. In fact, in the first week as premier I announced a new policy for prime agricultural land, where tree plantations will no longer - as of right - be able to be planted on our prime agricultural land. And it's my firm belief that Tasmania's future - particularly when it comes to prime agricultural land - will rely on, or will be boosted by, low-volume, very high-value, niche products. And I'll give you an example of that: Tasmania produces the entire crop of saffron that is produced in the southern hemisphere - literally a product that's worth its weight in gold!

Peter Mares: You talk about parameters changing and when it comes to forestry the parameters that are changing most quickly are those to do with climate change. The mounting scientific evidence is that old growth forests are the best repositories of stored carbon and also very good at taking more carbon out of the atmosphere. Now, that evidence is growing and growing: that old growth forests should be left intact if Australia really is serious about cutting greenhouse gas emissions.

David Bartlett: Well, I think there's a counter body of evidence as well - there's certainly a growing counter body of evidence - that says it's new plantations of trees that actually sequester the most carbon over any given decade, or 10-, 20-year lot. But there are clearly perverse outcomes in the current assessment of the way trees and forestry in general is treated in climate change accounting. The Kyoto Protocol, I believe, makes significant errors when it comes to accounting for trees. In fact, the current Kyoto Protocol - as signed up to by the Australian government - makes no discernment between, or no difference... accounts no differently for a forest or an acre of forest that's chopped down and burnt, as opposed to an acre of forest that's chopped down and turned into high-value wood products, like floorboards and coffee tables.

Peter Mares: And also an acre of forest that's chopped down and turned into paper products, which suffer a very different fate to floorboards.

David Bartlett: Correct. It makes no difference in its accounting. It has no difference in it accounting of those and that is clearly incorrect. What we need to learn more about... and through the Garnaut Report and others, we will come to a better understanding of how forests should be treated in the accounting systems, if you like, of climate change... We will have a better indication of how Tasmania will respond to that. But as important for us going forward is the federal government's mandatory Renewable Energy Targets, and therefore renewable energy schemes, and emissions trading schemes where Tasmania is producing currently some 75 per cent of all of Australia's renewable energy through our hydro and wind... And it would be a very perverse outcome if we were penalised for that under any future emissions trading system. So, these are big questions for Tasmania around the accounting of forest systems within the climate change debate, but also through emissions trading and renewable energy targets Tasmania stands to gain significantly, or be punished significantly by the wrong outcome if these systems aren't correctly set up.

Peter Mares: I'm going to come back to the old growth forests issue, because Australia is going to Indonesia, we're going to Papua New Guinea and saying 'we encourage you not to cut down your forests'. Yet, we continue to log old growth forests, particularly in Tasmania. Now, if Professor Garnaut says those forests should be left intact as a contribution to reducing our greenhouse gas emissions and storing carbon, will you take that advice?

David Bartlett: Well, again, I do want my cabinet and my government to be heavily reliant on data, evidence and knowledge. I've just announced the appointment of the Office of Chief Scientist in Tasmania... We have a very science-based community; in fact, there are more scientists that live in Hobart than any other capital city in Australia, per capita. We are a rich science community and I want what we do as a government, this new government, to have all its policies based on good data, good evidence and the right knowledge and the right science. So, of course I will be taking into account, in moving on... Those changing parameters of the forestry industry in Tasmania will be based on good scientific evidence.

Peter Mares: Another area where you've distinguished yourself from your predecessor, Paul Lennon is in the tone of your comments on the Gunns pulp mill.

David Bartlett: Well, I've said, again right from the outset, that I believe the Tasmanian parliament has done enough - and some would say done too much, of course - to see this project to fruition. The fact of the matter is that this project now will stand or fall on whether the proponent can meet the required permits and whether the proponent can get the required finance for the project going forward. I am of the mind to want to see this debate come to an end in Tasmania. I believe that the things that unite Tasmanians are far, far in excess of the things that divide us, but we often trip ourselves up on debates like this that can divide communities and I think we need to move past this debate... And therefore I look forward to a resolution to the debate. But largely that resolution lies in the hands of the proponent.

Peter Mares: Not entirely, though, because you have to decide whether or not to grant an extension to Gunns which was supposed to begin construction of the pulp mill by June 30th at the latest - that's Monday, I think. Now, you have to decide whether or not to give them an extension under the so-called sovereign risk agreement with the government. Are you going to give them that extension?

David Bartlett: Well I don't for a minute believe that a $2.2 billion project will stand or fall based on the extension of a $15 million sovereign risk agreement.

Peter Mares: I should explain to listeners [that] the $15 million is what you would have to pay Gunns as the government if you were to protect more forests and not enable Gunns to use those forests for its pulp mill.

David Bartlett: That's essentially correct, yes. I've said to Gunns... In fact, I've said to the executive chairman of Gunns just today, who I met for the very first time today (that's Mr [John] Gay), that I asked him to come and give me a briefing here in my office in Hobart, and he did that today to give me an assessment of where the proponent believes this project is at. I'll be taking that information, of course, to cabinet on Monday and with my cabinet, on all the evidence and data and knowledge available to it, will make the best decision in the best interests of Tasmanians.

Peter Mares: Would you like to see Tasmania less identified with forests and more known for other industries?

David Bartlett: Well, look, absolutely. I think it's a shame that the national media, the national spotlight, is often on Tasmania for these issues when Tasmania genuinely is a place... and I've said right from the outset: I want Tasmania to be a place that's both clever and kind, but also connected to the rest of the globe for a unique, non-franchised brand that it really is. And when I talk about our products like saffron, like award-winning cheeses and wines, like beaches that are rated within the Top Ten in the world; incredible place of innovation, of creativity, I guess I am depressed sometimes when the national focus is on Tasmania for these style of debates. Now, I'm going to, on Tuesday night, the 25th anniversary of the saving of the Franklin River dinner and I'm doing that because I believe Tasmania's history has been, I guess, characterised, or punctuated, by environmental debates that have split our community and I believe we need to move past that and focus on the things that unite us.

Peter Mares: If you want to do that, then, surely you have to lead a government that is more clearly independent of forest industry interests... Because that's the perception of Tasmania, that was the perception of Paul Lennon, that the government was very much, very closely allied - captive, in fact - to forestry industry interests.

David Bartlett: I accept that that's a perception that's been promoted by some commentators and many in the national media, and I accept that...

Peter Mares: Well, you blame the media for it, but I would say that it's a widespread perception.

David Bartlett: No, that wasn't about blame. I accept that that is a perception that has been perpetrated or been spread around the country - I accept that. And I accept that for Tasmania to continue the incredible economic and social transformation that it has commenced over the last ten years... I want to draw a line over that great transformation we've made and start talking about the next ten years of continuing that transformation to turn Tasmania truly into what I believe it has potential to be, and that is a place that is absolutely unique in the world. And let's not forget, by the way, that Tasmania as a land-mass is the second most protected land mass on the planet, following Antarctica. So, that's the sort of data and information that people often don't hear through the national media.

Peter Mares: David Bartlett, thank you very much for joining me in The National Interest.

David Bartlett: Much appreciated, thank you.

Peter Mares: Tasmanian Premier, David Bartlett, who we understand is a regular listener to National Interest, listening via podcast downloaded from our website. We're flattered.

And in coming weeks we hope to bring you more interviews with Premiers and Chief Ministers around Australia, since five out of eight of them like David Bartlett, have inherited the job and are yet to face voters at an election. In fact, the longest-serving Labor leader is now ACT Chief Minister, Jon Stanhope, followed by South Australia's Mike Rann.

Guests

David Bartlett
Premier of Tasmania

Presenter

Peter Mares

Producer

James Panichi

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