ABC Home | Radio | Television | News | Your Local ABC | More Subjects… | Shop


17 December 2006

Renovating Muslim Australia

| 

It's been a tough year for Australian Muslims. The Hilali controversy has exposed deep divisions in the Sydney Muslim community - between different religious factions, generations and classes. But the younger generation of Muslim leaders is saying it's also a time to renovate - and lay some new foundations. They've asked us to come on-site and watch their backyard blitz, Aussie Muslim style. Reporter: Tom Morton


Transcript

Transcript

This transcript was typed from a recording of the program. The ABC cannot guarantee its complete accuracy because of the possibility of mishearing and occasional difficulty in identifying speakers.

MEN SHOUTING

Tom Zreika: In Australia, ladies and gentlemen, the past year has been incredibly difficult for Muslims, particularly in relation to attacks on our perceived lack of values, and lack of nationalism. During those times I was personally comforted by the knowledge that the majority of our fellow Australians believed in the principles of justice, equality, dignity and respect for all.

Brothers and sisters, we may be hurt, but we will never be broken.

All pioneers pain in this way, but don't give up on your community. Don't stop pushing for what's right and just. Don't give up on Islam, don't give up on Australia, this is your community, this is your country.

Tom Morton: Tom Zreika, President of the Lebanese Muslim Association speaking recently at the Lakemba Mosque at a celebration for the end of Ramadan.

And today on Background Briefing, it's Backyard Blitz, Aussie Muslim style.

(On-site at the LMA): Can you give us a tour? Good day, I'm Tom Morton from ABC Radio.

Tom Morton: Sydney's Muslim community is renovating, and they've invited us to come on site and watch the work in progress.

Tom Zreika: This is the reception hall, for obviously functions and dance parties - no, no! It's almost at completion. Hopefully a couple more weeks this should be finished, painted, everything.

Tom Morton: As Tom Zreika was saying just now, it's been a tough year for Australian Muslims.

From the Cronulla riots to the Hilali controversy, the Sydney Muslim community has come under intense public scrutiny.

Now it's important to keep in mind that the majority of Muslim Australians live outside Sydney, but when the Sydney community hits the headlines, Muslims all around the country feel the heat.

Waleed Aly: When you think about all the concerns people have about Muslims, a lot of the stories that bolster them are Sydney stories. There tends to be this incessant focus on south-western Sydney, Lakemba, Bankstown, Punchbowl, I mean obviously there are stories outside of that, I mean you've had terror arrests for example in Melbourne, but it tends to be primarily a narrative that's run from Sydney.

Tom Morton: Waleed Aly, from the Islamic Council of Victoria.

Well today on Background Briefing, we're taking you to those suburbs in south-western Sydney to try to understand what's happening there.

Emina: My name is Emina. I'm a primary school teacher and why not ask us, seeing like we're going to be the next generation, why not ask us and hear from us what you want, because we have a lot of potential if they just give us the chance.

Tom Morton: The Hilali controversy in particular has exposed deep divisions in the Sydney community between different religious factions, between the generations, even between working-class and middle-class Muslims.

Emmi: But there are faults in every other community as well, as well as ours.

Tom Morton: There's a clamour of voices and a vigorous contest about who has the right to speak on behalf of Australian Muslims. But some of the younger generation are saying that it's also a time to lay some new foundations.

Eman Dandan: It's I guess, this process it's going through and it's going to keep going through, that we need to be critical of ourselves in order to improve our situation. And being critical of ourselves means being critical of our organisations, being critical of leaders, and I'm not saying being critical of character, but Islam propagates being critical and questioning actions and behaviour, especially if they're going to have consequences for more than just yourself.

Tom Morton: Eman Dandan. At 24, she's already had years of experience behind her working for various Muslim organisations in Sydney. She's a graduate of Sydney University and she recently spent some weeks in Indonesia on an Asialink Leadership scholarship.

Eman Dandan says that the controversy about Sheik Hilali and his comments on women's dress has exposed an uncomfortable truth about the Sydney Muslim community, that it's stopped thinking, and stopped questioning.

Eman Dandan: I think because the community feels like it's under a microscope, you enter a mode of defensiveness and when you enter that mode, it becomes incredibly difficult to question the internal, and especially for a community like ours, because of the things that are going on locally and internationally, they feel that you can't go out in public and question a Muslim or Islam, because if you're seen to do that, you're seen as somebody who has left the community. So you're no longer seen as somebody who actually has a deep love and respect for its community, and wants to actually see progress in the community, the moment you start questioning things, you're put on the outside..

Ahmed Kilani: People have to understand that we are going through a generational change at the moment, and if that's happening amongst this whole global environment of Islam being under the spotlight and in the focus, and there's a lot of initiatives going on internally within the community, especially from probably the younger generation under the age of 40 who are really trying to now more or less sitting back and watching a lot of these things going on with all the uncles or the oldies, and saying, 'Oh, that's just silly and why are they saying that?' I think it's come to a stage where they're now saying, 'No, no, no, I have to get involved because this is very critical.'

Tom Morton: Ahmed Kilani. Ahmed's 34, a successful businessman, and co-founder of IslamicSydney.com. It's now Australia's most popular religious website, with a million hits a week.

If you log onto the discussion forums there, you'll quickly see that there's no shortage of debate in the community, and some of it can get pretty heated. But if there's consensus on one issue alone, it's the need for the younger generation of Muslims to roll up their sleeves and take a stronger role in leadership.

Ahmed Kilani: Over the last three or four years, you've seen greater involvement and you'll see a lot more in the next year to two years in moving forward from Australian-born or raised Muslims getting involved, and that's what I'm saying is that yes, we're like a restaurant, we've got the newspaper all over the front window, and we're inside and we're going to re-open, but we're renovating at the moment. So we're closed for renovations, and we'd like to have you back when we're finished our renovations. But at the moment you want to try and peer through a little tear in the newspaper, you're going to see maybe a bit of chaos going on in there as we clean the place out.

Tom Zreika: OK, we'll just walk up. Thanks.

Tom Morton: So how long has this been in the planning, in the building?

Tom Zreika: Nearly ten years now. The previous boards have spent nearly $5-million to $6-million to get it to this stage. It's a four storey multi-purpose youth centre, it's going to have basketball courts, offices, it's going to have a gym, a ladies' gym, you know, a split, and it's going to have a big meeting hall. It will have classes, it will have - I mean it's going to house most of the work that we do, because hopefully, what we're hoping to do is connect the mosque with the youth centre and hopefully set up an educational facility which will be fantastic.

Tom Morton: So where did the need for this come from?

Tom Zreika: Well first of all we needed to educate imams, and our youth, using Australian values, and using the Islamic faith in tandem. There's no need to recycle imams from across the globe to bring them to Australia. I think we really need them to be well versed in the Australian culture, and the language. So there's no better way than to educate them ourself.

Tom Morton: Tom Zreika. He's the President of the Lebanese Muslim Association, in Lakemba. And he's been showing me around their new multi-purpose 4-storey youth centre. It's still under construction but it should open sometime in the new year.

Tom Zreika: It's great, it's going to be great.

Tom Morton: How big is it?

Tom Zreika: This is about 400 to 600 square metres. It's pretty big.

Tom Morton: A few stops further down the trainline, I visit a very different kind of youth centre.

Excuse me mate, I'm from ABC Radio National. My name's Tom. I'm doing a show about Muslim youth in Australia, and just came along here because it sounded like an interesting place to come. Do you want to introduce yourself?

Yusuf: My name's Yusuf , I'm 23 years old from Sydney Auburn.

Tom Morton: And how long have you been coming here?

Yusuf: I've been coming here for about three years, approximately, training and whatnot.

Tom Morton: So what sort of training do you do?

Yusuf: I do a bit of weights, a bit of cardio, some boxing upstairs, so just fix it up, why not. It's really good.

Tom Morton: And what got you started on coming here?

Yusuf: A few of the local boys said they're starting up a gym, so we just came down to show our face and started training, and from then on it was just the story from then on.

Tom Morton: So it's become an important part of your life?

Yusuf: Yes, a lot of boys, it's an important part of their life, they come down and train, it's social as well, all get to know each other. A few boys didn't know each other before they came, now it's just like a bit of a family we have here.

Tom Morton: Yusuf is one of the regulars at the ICRA youth centre in the south-western suburb of Lidcombe. There's a boxing gym and a weights room, all housed in what used to be a Masonic Temple.

Fadi Rahman is the President of ICRA, and he's just put down the dumbells to talk to me.

Fadi Rahman: Well at the moment we are in the gym room, the weight room, and now we've got about maybe 10, 11 kids who are training up, some of them trying to be a little bit healthy and fit. So yes, everybody's enjoying his time and everybody's chatting and screaming as you can hear, typical boys. But the main thing is that they're enjoying themselves.

Tom Morton: So this is a pretty typical scene on any weekday here, yes?

Fadi Rahman: Yes, that's right. And we usually open at 3.30, after 3.30 just to make sure that the kids have gone home at least, dropped their bags, and had something to eat. Then they get the chance to come here. Because we found in the past when you open before that time, they tend to come and start skipping school, so that's something we don't want them to do. But yes, basically this is an everyday scene.

Tom Morton: Can I ask you, what's your name?

Roger Zreika: Roger Zreika.

Tom Morton: And how long have you been coming here to ICRA?

Roger Zreika: Around 10 and a half months.

Tom Morton: So what made you start coming?

Roger Zreika: My mates started doing boxing and I was already doing the footy, and I thought I would try it out, and I started.

Tom Morton: So I gather you're the youngest person who comes here, is that right?

Roger Zreika: Yes, that's right.

Tom Morton: How old are you?

Tom Zreika: Twelve and a half.

Tom Morton: It's pretty young to be starting serious training, isn't it?

Tom Zreika: Yes, it's pretty young, but I'm dedicated to it and I want to train.

Tom Morton: So what's your ambition?

Tom Zreika: I just want to be an amateur fighter.

Tom Morton: Have you got any kind of role models there?

Tom Zreika: Oh yes, I've got heaps of role models. I've got my trainer, Benny, he was an amateur fighter. I've got his brother, Hussein Hussein, he was the second best amateur fighter in the world, and a pro fighter now. And his other brother, Skinny, Skinny Nabil Hussein, he's a pro fighter, and I've got all the amateurs.

Fadi Rahman: Well as you can see the majority are Lebanese Muslim kids, there are some that come here from different backgrounds, but predominantly it's Muslim kids, Lebanese Muslim kids.

Tom Morton: Tell us a little bit while we're here, about how you came to set up the centre.

Fadi Rahman: Basically I was a young troubled kid who got caught up in the wrong business, with crime and all, and when I finally realised that this wasn't the right path that I was taking, and my life was threatened on a few occasions, I realised that I needed to stop what I was doing, and because I always felt that there was no-one there for me, I felt that it was necessary for someone to be there for these kids. It's very important for them to have a mentor and someone that they can look up to, and for someone to guide them through this hard journey of theirs, which is the teenage years.

Tom Morton: Fadi Rahman knows all about that hard journey. In many ways, Fadi's own journey speaks for a generation of young Lebanese Muslims, trying to find their place in the society they've been born into.

Fadi was born in Lakemba, but while he was growing up his father decided to move the family to Mount Druitt, because he wanted his children to integrate into Australian society.

Fadi Rahman: Dad not knowing basically what the areas are like, and things, how they operate within the Australian community, he thought well if my kids were to go to Mount Druitt, then they're going to become as Australianised as possible. And yes, we moved up there, and we were raised up there. We attended the local school, and that's when everything started, it was basically with our neighbours, at school, with the teachers, and it's just basically we started running into a bloody goddam brick wall.

Tom Morton: So when you say you ran into a brick wall, what do you mean?

Fadi Rahman: Like I said before, Dad was taking us to that area to become as Australian as possible because that's what he wanted us to do. We live in Australia now and we should be exactly like the Australians, as my parents used to put it back in those days. But you know, like I said we ran into a brick wall because the brick wall, we didn't find the acceptance that should have been there. The acceptance wasn't there from the kids, it wasn't there from the teachers, it wasn't there from our neighbours, it was every time we tried to, as they put the word you know, 'integrate', we bloody found it hard to become Australian.

Well we used to go back and complain to Mum and Dad, quickly enough we were told 'Be thankful for these people to have you here'. And this basically taught us this defence mechanism if you want to call it, where you can shut things down and go into denial and say, 'Yes, we are very thankful, like good little slaves, that yes, we're thankful to the master because he happened to allow us to be here.

Tom Morton: I know it sounds like a tough thing to say, but you might get previous generations of migrants saying 'Well, tough. Cop it, We had to cop it. So should you.'

Fadi Rahman: Yes, look I heard it - many, many different people have said to me then, well you know the Greeks copped it, the Italians have copped it, the Chinese people have copped it, and look where they are now. And funnily enough, I was at a meeting last week where this fellow made so much sense when he said a comment, because a similar person, I was giving a talk and he said to me 'Mate, look, I'm Greek, my father's gone through the same thing. Italian people have gone through the same thing and everything else.' But then before I got to answer him, this fellow answered him he said, 'Hey, hey, hey, I'll give you one scenario that you did not cop what these people are copping, and that's the worst thing that could happen to you, is people attacking their faith.' He goes, 'When you were there, they were attacking you because you looked different, because you were eating different, and that's where the buck stopped.' He goes, 'These people are being attacked because of the way they look, because of who they are, and to top it all off, where you can hurt a human being is to attack what he believes in.'

Tom Morton: Fadi says that he and his brothers did the only thing they knew how to do. They rebelled.

Fadi Rahman: We quickly found that you had to defend yourself, more often you had to be a bit vicious in order for the other kids to get scared of you; at least what we were trying to achieve is minimise the racial slurs and rebelling was working. Finally something was working for us.

Tom Morton: Before long, Fadi and his brothers got involved in petty crime. They soon found that they were on a treadmill they couldn't get off.

Fadi Rahman: Because you make a certain amount of money from certain things, but then when you want to go up a notch and you go right to the top and try to bring in the big bucks, you've got to start doing it big, and you've got to start doing big things.

Tom Morton: We're talking about drugs here, yes?

Fadi Rahman: Yes, that's exactly what we're talking about, drugs and weapons of any sort, because basically this is what brings you big money. This is the moneymakers as they say. So you start working basically for bigger things now. And obviously bigger things mean more money and more money means bigger crimes, and you just get caught up in all of this, and it's very hard for you to pull away, it's quite hard.

When you live that lifestyle you go either of two ways. Either you end up in jail or you end up dead. Basically my death came knocking on the door before I was locked up. Basically the person that had put the gun to my head was a hitman. I had this guy saying you know, 'Say your last wishes', and I was down on my knees basically trying to beg for my life, so yes, it was quite shocking to think that well I was almost gone.

Tom Morton: So what saved you?

Fadi Rahman: Basically I turned out to know the guy.

Tom Morton: Well it's good to be able to laugh about it now, but -

Fadi Rahman: Yes mate, believe me, I wasn't laughing then, I wasn't laughing at all, I was the guy - I mean this is what brought me back to Islam and this is what brought me back to faith and having faith in God, is that for me to realise that he was the person when I was in Year 7 he was in Year 12, and I remembered him. I remembered him so clearly, and when I called out his name and identified him, obviously he was quite shocked, and I quickly told him who I was and who all my brothers were and everything else, because my older brother was a friend of his. And he got really angry at me and he said, 'You bloody idiot', you know, 'I was dead set going to kill you and I couldn't care less. I would have walked off as if nothing had happened', and because I really felt that God had made me realise who that person is and identify him. So to me I believe that it was a miracle, it was from God, and I quickly went back to my faith and rediscovered Islam and Islam had the answers there for me to pull me away from the drug scene and from the alcohol and all that, the criminal life, to quickly make me realise that what I was doing was totally wrong and I was harming others.

And we want to see our kids better themselves and we want to empower them towards a better future and give them a chance for something that we weren't able to have. I want them to have it, and I think it's only fair for them to have what other people have got.

Tom Morton: When you say you want them to have something that you didn't have, what are you talking about?

Fadi Rahman: I'm talking about a better shot at life, to have chances, the chances that might have skipped me and I didn't see them at the time, I want them to realise and open up their eyes, it's really important for someone to be there that can relate to them, someone that had been through what they've been, maybe even worse, to tell them otherwise, to tell them hey, you know, you stay in school because of this and that.

Tom Morton: You're listening to Background Briefing on ABC Radio National. And today we're on site as Sydney's Muslim community renovates.

Tom Zreika: This is the sports hall. As you can see we've got indoor basketball, indoor soccer, volleyball, netball ...

Tom Morton: Back at the Lebanese Muslim Association in Lakemba, we're taking a tour of the sports facilities in their new youth centre. Construction of the centre had been stalled for many months, but the new board of the association which came in in July got the project restarted.

Tom Zreika says the composition of that board is just one more sign of renovation in their community.

Tom Zreika: I really think that there's a lot of fresh new blood that's been pumped into the organisations. And with the new blood, you get new skills, new ideas. In the past, board members were comprised of taxi drivers, shopkeepers, butchers, etc. Not to criticise those professions or those trades, but at the moment we've got for example, doctors, lawyers, engineers, people that have a capacity to provide for the community in a much broader and greater capability.

Tom Morton: And would it be true to say that this is also the new board members represent a generation who predominantly were born here in Australia, or who have grown up here?

Tom Zreika: Yes, exactly. That's the main thrust behind it, and I mean meetings used to be conducted in Arabic, now they're being conducted in English. You've got the younger generation obviously who were born in Australia, trained in Australia, and who have the infamous Australian values. And I'll tell you what, they're pretty well integrated in this Australian society.

Tom Morton: Tom Zreika. He became President of the Lebanese Muslim Association six months ago. Tom is also a lawyer and a Liberal councillor on Auburn Council in Sydney's south-west.

Tom Morton on site: ...and no money from overseas, that's an important point.

Tom Zreika: Nothing. I mean to be frank with you, five years ago the Iraqi government said you know, if you call it the Saddam Hussein complex, we'll give you $10-million for it. And we said, No way mate, thanks.

Tom Morton: The Lebanese Muslim Association was at the centre of the recent controversy surrounding the comments by Sheikh Taj el din Hilali.

Tom Zreika says the controversy was a baptism of fire for him and his new board.

Tom Zreika: We really held the country's weight on our shoulders. That was what was happening, you know, the first time I came out I heard the news you know, Al-Jazeera for example, and Qatar and Dubai, I had calls from Atlanta in the US and New York etc. It really travelled throughout the world, and that's a huge responsibility. And the colours of Islam were on our backs, the colours of Australia were on our backs. Not that we have a divergencer ot shared allegiances to either, we are Muslims, it's a faith it's not a culture, we are Australians and the weight of both of them, or both are on our shoulders.

Eman Dandan: Now there's a lot of people in the community who did have an issue with the language that was used. And were silenced. Not just silenced in the public sphere, I'm not talking about silence in the Australian media, that's not the issue, we're talking about being silenced internally, and especially for a community like ours, because of the things that are going on both locally and internationally, they feel that you can't go out in public and question a Muslim or Islam, right? Because if you're seen to do that, you're seen as somebody who has left the community. So you're no longer seen as somebody who actually has a deep love and respect for its community and wants to actually see progress in the community, the moment you start questioning things, you're put on the outside.

Tom Morton: Eman Dandan. She's been closely involved with the Lebanese Muslim community in Lakemba, and worked with Sheikh Hilali at the Lebanese Muslim Association. I asked Eman to describe her reactions when she heard about the Sheikh's comments.

Eman Dandan: One of my initial reactions was anger. I did feel that. I mean at the end of that day that it came out in the media, I have a little sister who's 13 years old, and she'd come home and she wears the veil, so she's quite visible. Now she comes home and says Oh, you know, I was at the bus stop going to school, and this male, white male, came up and started abusing me, and heckling me and so forth, and my friends defended me, but that's what's happening and I didn't do anything to him, and just started interfering with us and abusing me specifically. Now for me, that was why I was angry at the Sheikh's comments was that the comments of one man who's the leader of the community is not something that he is only answerable to, it's something that every young Muslim woman, especially Muslim women who wear the veil, Muslims who are visible, are now going to be questioned on, going to be attacked on, are going to be asked to defend. And my 13 year old sister isn't able to do that, nor should she be.

Tom Morton: Eman Dandan believe there are many people in the Sydney Muslim community who privately share her feelings about Sheikh Hilali's comments. But Eman says the community is trapped in a defensive mindset, where people feel unable to express their criticisms publicly.

Eman Dandan: The community entered the defensive mode the moment we saw John Howard and government, Maurice Iemma, jump on the bandwagon, and if I may, try to tell us what to do. Because all that's done, it serves to put people who might have criticized the comments internally in the community to defend the comments publicly, to try and justify everything, and a lot of people who did that I honestly believe that they may not necessarily have agreed with what happened and what was said, but for the sake of the greater good, for the sake of the community, for the sake of the unity and for the sake of not kow-towing to the government, they will defend it.

Tom Morton: But I mean is that a good thing? Because a lot of people might say that precisely what's needed is, and you yourself have said, what's needed is more questioning, more ability to admit different points of view, not to have to preserve unity at any price.

Eman Dandan: Definitely. But, and this is the conflict at the moment for Muslims in the community who are trying to do that, because when they do do that, they're grouped with people like John Howard.

Tom Morton: So you're talking here about people who are openly critical of aspects of the community or community leaders?

Eman Dandan: Definitely. I mean because then within the community they're seen as giving lip service to the government. It's like they must have another agenda, they're not trying to help their own community, it's exactly that, they're serving the agenda of the government and the media. And I sit there and I think about, I think, Well why would you want to be in a situation where you're not only possibly putting yourself in a place where you're going to get burnt by the wider community, but also more so by your own community.

Tom Zreika: Look I want to acknowledge the efforts of Eman Dandan, she's worked tirelessly for the community. She's a fantastic worker, she's very committed and very hard-working. But at the same time, look I don't think we're on the defensive. We've come out quite balanced in our response. Our job was to make sure that what was said was rectified in some manner, because what was said was inexcusable. Two weeks after that whole debacle happened, we opened the doors of the Lakemba Mosque, and we said there's an open day. We got praise from all circles. Everybody was invited to the mosque, people come and ask me questions any time you want. We're certainly, I can emphasise that again, that we're not on the defensive. We're not victims. This is a product of our own stupidity, we provided ammunition to the public to attack us, and that's not going to happen in the future.

Tom Morton: Tom Zreika.

Fadi Rahman: The young people always in trouble, the young people always under the constant attack, every time something happens within the community, the young people are left to pick up the pieces, and you've got a lot of people who are doing projects and programs for those who are already at university, for those who already have a better life, but these kids who are recent, the kids who are in trouble, the kids who are pretty much lost, don't have a voice.

Tom Morton: Fadi Rahman. Recently Fadi and his co-workers at the ICRA youth centre organised a conference called 'All Eyez on Youth' to bring the concerns of Muslim youth to a wider audience.

Freelance reporter Mansour Razaghi went along to the conference for Background Briefing.

Mansour Razaghi: What are the most important challenges that are facing the Muslim youth here today in Australia?

Man: The most important challenges are about being accepted, because we don't really feel as if we're accepted in a society that is different in a way. They keep telling us to integrate and have Australian values and do whatever but there's no actual saying or book or anything that states what are Australian values.

Mansour Razaghi: Do you think you have integrated well into the society?

Man: Yes, I'm integrated because -

Mansour Razaghi: What do you mean to be integrated?

Man: I don't see it as an issue because I'm born here. I'm Australian, but I might look Lebanese because I come from a Lebanese background. But I don't really care what people say about me, because I'm proud of who I am, no matter what they say they can't change me, and I've just learnt to move on. If people are ignorant, let them be.

Man: The most important challenges would probably be fitting in with the Australian society, not being alienated, how they victimise us and put us in different groups, and just being able to go out and have fun, and not being victimised and regarded as Muslims.

Fadi Rahman: They held the wider community responsible, they held the government responsible at every level. They held the Muslim leaders responsible as well, which was quite interesting to hear them say things like that. One of the things that they called on was that society itself have treated us like victims.

Tom Morton: I've heard other young Muslims in Australia say 'We've got to get out of this victim mentality; we've got to get out of this kind of defensive attitude, we've got to stop seeing ourselves as victims and if you like, take control of our lives. What's your feeling about that?

Fadi Rahman: Look, it's easy for those who happen to be born with a silver spoon in their mouth and say Well enough being victimised, and you guys shouldn't let any - you should take yourself out of this victim mentality and just snap the hell out of it and yes, green grass. Doesn't quite work like that. If only these people knew what these kids go through, and I've experienced it myself. Yes, I do tell my kids that you must come out of the victim mentality, but I also give them the medicine. I tell them how to get out of the victim mentality, I tell them to fight back. You need to give them a bit of that fire in their bellies and the hunger for them to change their lives. You must give that to them because they've lost it.

Man: I think that we need to start reflecting on our behaviour, in terms of how we deal with one another, and that's really important because what I see happening in our community is people fighting with each other.

Mohamad: There's many people claiming to be the voice of Islam within Australia, and each one only represents a group.

Kuranda Seyit: They attacking each other, whether it's through the court system or whether it's it through backbiting or attacking each other in public or for the media. And we need to overcome that.

Mohamad: Indeed we have to try to solve it or we have to aim at improving the situation we already have at the moment and that is factions all over the place and people having a grave misunderstanding of Islam and the principles of Islam, and what we're trying to intend.

Kuranda Seyit: These issues are urgent, these issues are imminent. If we don't do something about it now we will have a whole generation of disconnected Muslims.

Tom Morton: Kuranda Seyit.

Over the last year, the lid's been lifted on the Sydney Muslim community. Some of the people we've heard from today would say that's a healthy development because it's opened up a space for debate and dialogue. But as the community opens up, long-standing political struggles which have previously been hidden come bubbling up to the surface. There's a vigorous and sometimes acrimonious contest going on over who has the right to speak on behalf of Australian Muslims and who has the ear of government.

Ahmed Kilani: I think it's a lot of what has to do with legitimacy and relevance, and I think a lot of the problem is a lot of the people that are speaking are really not relevant to the majority of the Muslims, and from that they don't have a legitimacy to speak, and that's the perception that's seen. So if a group comes out and says OK, I'm speaking on behalf of all the community, well who gave you the authority to speak, or what legitimacy do you have. And also the community is still quite diverse. So you'll get a lot of different voices speaking, they might well speak on behalf of a certain amount of people, but there's no real sense I suppose that they speak on behalf of all Australian Muslims.

Tom Morton: For over a decade there's been an intense rivalry between the Lebanese Muslim Association which has its power base in Lakemba, and an organisation called the ICPA, or Islamic Charity Projects Association, which is based in Bankstown.

Now the ICPA is linked to a group called the Habashi. The Habashi originated in Ethiopia and then became influential amongst middle-class Muslims in Lebanon in the '80s and '90s.

Now many people I've spoken to in the Sydney Muslim community accuse the Federal government of taking sides in this internal political battle. They point to the fact that the government appointed someone they say is a member of the Habashi community in Bankstown to the Prime Minister's Muslim Community Reference Group. The man in question is Mustapha Kara Ali.

Mustapha Kara-Ali: That turf war mentality, that old-style competing forces, we should move away, and this is what I can tell you quite clearly, that second generation Muslims are moving away from that, because they are finding a way of harmony, and a way of cohesion amongst members of the Muslim community. So in a lot of sense, I have hope that the old politics of the first generation migrants will not transport and carry itself across to the second generation migrant. It will bury itself with the first generation, there has to be a wider process of communication amongst the second generation Muslims and this is where I see myself in a lot of sense.

Tom Morton: So are you a member of the Habashi community yourself?

Mustapha Kara-Ali: Personally I am a member of any organisation that has a sense of vision and a sense of direction. The way I see Sheikh Abdallah al-Habashi, he is another scholar that the community is in dire need of. Now the model that he has established in terms of practices and coexistence among people of differences, is very significant. His model of tolerance is very much needed in today's climate of highly politicised Muslim communities in western countries. There are no competing forces, let me add, there is no exclusivist group, we shouldn't be thinking in an exclusivist sense. No, I believe I belong to any organisation that has a sense of vision, and has a sense of direction that will assist Muslim youth.

Man: I mean it's only natural to compete. I don't think there's a rivalry. We're not trying to bash each other, what we're trying to do is be the best performing entity for the community. The LMA at the moment is the undisputable representative of the Muslims in Australia, I mean 60,000 to 80,000 isn't a small number that you can scoff at.

Tom Morton: Many members of the Lakemba community are still angry that the Lebanese Muslim Association wasn't given a stronger voice on the Prime Minister's Muslim Community Reference Group. But that's a charge which Andrew Robb, the Parliamentary Secretary for Multicultural Affairs, rejects.

Andrew Robb: Well I mean if you see the irony of all that is that Sheikh Hilal1 who is the principal person within that Lebanese Muslim community around Lakemba, was on the group from Day 1 and never bothered to attend any meetings, not one, not one meeting. He sent a representative to some, but I think it's a bit rich to then suggest that there was no opportunity and the Habashi community is a very significant one, doing a lot of very practical things. Look, the bottom line is that there are many, many tensions within the Muslim community around Australia in some cases. And I think a lot of the criticisms about composition of the groups and all the rest of it, just reflects the differences and some of the internal issues that are rumbling around.

Waleed Aly: I would just say that I would encourage the government to make sure that its engagement with the Muslim community is as broad as possible rather than it identifies one particular group of Muslims who are prepared to say the things it wants to hear, and then proceed on that basis, as though it is now engaging with the Muslim community. If it proceeds to do that, then what I think we'll find is that it will increasingly alienate the Muslim community that it's claiming to engage. And that is counter-productive, and it would seem also counter to the very intention of engaging with the community.

Tom Morton: Waleed Aly.

Now you might ask: why should we be interested in what's essentially a turf war between two suburbs in south-western Sydney. But in the context of the global spotlight on Islam, these local sectarian conflicts can seem to take on a larger significance. The ICPA in Bankstown has regularly claimed that the Lakemba Mosque is harbouring extremists.

The Lakemba community hits back with claims that its rivals in Bankstown are a sect, a fringe group with links to violent elements in Lebanon.

So how do outsiders looking in try to make sense of what's going on here?

As an outside observer, but someone who follows the debates and struggles in the Sydney community, Waleed Aly is well-placed to be our guide.

Waleed Aly: My only piece of advice I guess to listeners is to say: Just be wary of the language, and be prepared to understand that there are all sorts of political imperatives at play here, that are now being played out in the national conversation, as opposed to previously when they were played out in internal community circles. And that means that people are going to be saying all sorts of things that are not necessarily about communicating information to the broader community, but also about political moves within the community and perhaps even in relation to government.

Tom Morton: Is there a sense in which what we're seeing is simply normal community politics, the kind of politics that we've seen within a whole lot of different ethnic or migrant communities in Australia, it's just normal community politics, but being played out or seen through the prism of the global war on terror and concerns about extremisms and so on, so that it starts to be read in a different way?

Waleed Aly: There's no doubt. It seems to me there is no doubt that there are internal community political issues within the Muslim communities, particularly in Sydney, but elsewhere as well. And what's happening now is that they're finding their way into the public conversation, and the public conversation is somehow becoming a theatre for the ventilation of these kinds of issues. If someone is labelling someone else an extremist, when there appears to be no immediate imperative to do so, then they're probably trying to play some kind of political game. Similarly, I think where people describe themselves as moderates, I think that's a really weird thing to be doing. Some Muslims have started using it to describe themselves, but in my experience it tends to be used for the benefit of white Australia, to try to convince them that 'I'm a moderate, I'm benign, please deflect your anger elsewhere', and if it is used in that way, then I think well you've got every right to be sceptical of people who want to cling to those sorts of labels.

Man: Of course it's healthy to have different opinions and discussions and things, and it's just like any - we're not - the Muslim community is not just one big blob who all think the same way like robots, as we're portrayed, we're basically - you know I like to see us more - it's more a religious group rather than an ethnic group, and we're going from that stage now of being made up of little ethnic groups that follow a certain religion more or less to Australians who adhere to a particular faith.

Man: And in fact, what my aim is to do is to create an organisation which is called the Australian Muslim Association, to encompass anybody who wants to join, anybody who wants to become part of this decision-making process.

In 1962 this organisation was set up, and the constitution said that it's limited to Lebanese people of the Muslim faith. It's now 40 years later, I think there's a time and a need for a change. So anybody, whether you're Afghani or you're from Mauritius, or Brazilian, or whatever, you are able to become a member in due course, of this organisation, and become a decision-maker.

Tom Morton: You've been listening to Background Briefing. Our Co-ordinating Producer is Linda McGinness; Web-mistress is Anna Whitfeld; Technical production was by Leila Schunner, and the Executive Producer is Joe Gelonesi. I'm Tom Morton and you're tuned to ABC Radio National.

SONG

Man: Brothers and sisters, we may be hurt but we will never be broken.

Man: I know I'm Australian, I feel Australian, and they tell me No, you're not, you're a problem, you're a thug, you're a criminal, you're an outcast, you're an immigrant, you're a wog, you're not Australian.

SONG

Man: Don't stop wishing for what's right, and just. Don't give up on Islam, don't give up on Australia. This is your community, this is your country.

SONG